Imam Malik’s Broken Arms or Is This a Broken Logic?
Unfortunately, the rumor that the reason why Malikis pray with their arms down has become quite popular among students of knowledge. When I went to visit UMBC over Spring Break to meet with the members of the faculty, the school newspaper, and several religious figures to discuss an article they wrote regarding the Danish depictions of the Prophet (saw), I hung out with some of the brothers in the musallah to see the “new blood” of the MSA. Two Malikis (Br. Luqman) and myself were discussing various issues regarding Maliki fiqh (like how hard it is for us to make ghusl and how many people gawk at us when we pray) when one of the brother said that the reason why the Malikis do this is because Imam Malik (r) was beaten and thus, couldn’t use his arms. This argument, which unfortunately is being taught in some weekend seminars, that Imam Malik (r) was beaten up by the Khalifah and that is why both he and the adherents to his madhab do not raise their arms is not only false, but downright illogical for the following reasons.
Firstly, it goes against common sense (which seems to have been thrown out of the window in its entirety). If Imam Malik’s (r) arms were broken, in addition to him not being able to raise his arms in qiyam, he would not have been able to raise them for the tabkir (he used to raise his arms when he started Salah, just like everyone else), nor would he have been able to use his arms in ruku (he placed his hands on his knees during ruku. This requires the use of one’s arms), nor would he have been able to place his hands on the floor during sajdah (when he was sajdah, he would place his arms in a high, upright position which would have been impossible if his arms were broken), and most importantly, when he came up from sajdah and back into the position of the qiyam, he would specifically use his arms to lift himself off of the ground. This shows that all throughout any given rakaah, he had to utilize his arms. If Imam Malik’s(r) were so incapable of being used because of his purported beating and he was so incapable of doing something as simple as folding his arms, he surely would not have been able to use them to lift himself off of the ground, which would require far more effort than just folding his hands.
Secondly, even if the presumption that Imam Malik’s (r) arms were broken, this does not satisfactorily explain why the entire Maliki madhab itself follows this ruling. Imam Malik (r) was such a man of the sunnah that he would not climb on his mount within the precincts of Madinah out of respect for the ground that which the Prophet (saw) was laid to rest in. If he saw his students praying with their arms down, he would have immediately recognized that his students were imitating him and not the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw) or the Amal of Madina and he would have immediately corrected his students. If people want to argue, well Imam Malik (r) would lead the salah, so he wouldn’t have been able to see how people were praying, this is just as erroneous. This is based on the presumption that Imam Malik (r) always lead salah, which, even if assumed to be true, wouldn’t account for Imam Malik’s (r) ability to see his students pray when they performed their sunnah or nawafil prayers. If Imam Malik (r) was praying with his arms down because they were incapable, he wouldn’t have taught this to his students.
Thirdly, Imam Malik (r) lived, breathed, and died in Madinah. The only time he left the city was to perform Hajj which required him to travle to Makkah. Madinah is the city where the overwhelming majority of the Ahkam in Islam were revealed and applied. Over 10,000 Sahabah (r) lived and died in this city. If Imam Malik (r) was praying differently, he would have not only been rebuked by his teachers (such as Imam Shafi’i (r). The rulings of a particular madhab aren’t restricted to the opinions of the mujtahid mutlaq alone, but also upon subsequent mujtahids as well. They aren’t necessarily bound to agree 100% to the mujtahid’s legal conclusions like we are. There is a difference between Imam Malik’s (r) statement “Homosexuality is unlawful” and his statement “Zayd is a homosexual” because the former is a declaration of a legal rule whereas the latter is a statement of a legal conclusion. The mujtahids of a particular school are more bound by the former (the legal rule) than the latter since the former is derived by an usool whereas the latter is the application of that rule to a set of particular facts, particular circumstances, and at a particular time.
Fourthly, Imam Malik’s (r) position on this issue was specifically recorded that he did not recognize the legitimacy of folding one’s arms in the obligatory prayers, although he did recognize it for voluntary prayers. Ibnul-Qaasim[1] says in Al-Mudauwanah relates that (“…Maalik said about placing the right hand over the left during Salat. He said: (“I don’t know (of) that in the obligatory (prayer).†And he used to dislike it. “However, in voluntary prayers (nawaafil), when the standing is extended, there is no harm in that (for one who doesn’t) support himself by it.â€â€¦).[3]
Lastly, Imam Malik’s (r) position is not an isolated one, but supported by various books of hadeeth that indicate that this is not only how the Prophet (saw) prayed, but also the Sahabah (ra) and the Tabi’een. The Maliki view is that this is how the majority of the Sahabah (ra) and the Tabi’een used to pray.
For more information regarding the Maliki Madhab’s position, click here.
EDIT: Br. Saad from Sunniforum pointed out that I made two mistakes in this post:
Firstly, Imam Malik (r) didn’t study under any Sahabah (ra). However, his grandfather, also named Malik, narrated hadeeth from Umar, Talha, Aisha, Abu Hurayrah, and Hasan ibn Thabit (ra). Also one of the four who carried, washed, and buried the body of Uthman (ra).
Secondly, it is possible to get up from sajdah without using your arms. However, in the Maliki madhab, it is sunnah to use your arms to lift yourself off the ground from sajdah, hence, proving the point that Imam Malik (r) still had to use his arms and they weren’t broken.
Sphere: Related ContentPublished March 31, 2006 . Filed under: Islamic Law and Jurisprudence
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i didnt know that…thanks for the clarification
April 1, 2006 @ 8:50 pm
This is one of the most frustrating and annoying positions that I have ever heard anyone regurgitate bro… and I am not even Maliki (just a wannabe :P)
April 1, 2006 @ 9:58 pm
Yeah, when I first heard this argument, I was still a Hanafi and even then, I didn’t believe it.
April 1, 2006 @ 10:08 pm
OMG! I never knew this! SubhanAllah!
April 4, 2006 @ 12:15 pm
The people who propagate these rumors should rename their course “devolution of fiqh”
April 4, 2006 @ 12:29 pm
According to the madhab of Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wasalam (the one I follow), you pray with your arms folded.
Thats how RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasalam prayed.
April 4, 2006 @ 3:04 pm
What proof do you have? Or are you following your opinions? Are you either a muhaddith or a mujtahid?
Please GQ, even you must realize that you aren’t THAT arrogant.
Anyhow, will you follow the hadeeth or your own nafs?
Al-Khadr says,
“And the ‘ulamaa have said that Ibn Az-Zubair took the description of prayer from Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq. Al-Khateeb reports in Taareekh al-Baghdaad that Ahmad ibn Hanbal – may Allah
be pleased with him – said: “’Abdur-Razzaq related to me.†He said: “Verily, the people of Makkah say: “Ibn Juraij took the description of prayer from ‘Ataa. And ‘Ataa took it from Ibn Al-Zubair. And Ibn Az-Zubayr took it from Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq. And Abu Bakr took it from the Prophet – may Allah 
bless and grant him peace.†And this indicates that Abu Bakr used to release (his hands) in his prayer, because, Ibn Az-Zubayr took the description of prayer from him.
And Ibn ‘Abbaas (The Prophet’s cousin) testified that the Salat of Ibn Az-Zubayr is the Salat of the Prophet – may Allah
bless and grant him peace – in what Abu Daawood relates about Maimoon Al-Makki that he saw ‘Abdullah ibn Az-Zubayr while leading them in prayer. He said afterwards, “Then, I went to Ibn ‘Abbaas and said: “Verily, I have seen Ibn Az-Zubayr pray a prayer that I have never seen anyone pray.†Then I described to him this gesture, and he said: “If you’d like to look at the prayer of the Messenger of Allah 
– may Allah 
bless and grant him peace – then copy the prayer of ‘Abdullah ibn Az-Zubayr.â€
April 4, 2006 @ 3:24 pm
“According to the madhab of Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wasalam (the one I follow), you pray with your arms folded.”
I hate to break the news to you, akhi, but Imam Malik was more knowledgeable about the madhab of Muhammad(saw) than you can even hope to be.
And he disagreed with you about the madhdhab of Muhammad(saw).
So you can either learn the madhab of Muhammad (saw) from him, or you can stick to your own uneducated guesses.
April 4, 2006 @ 7:27 pm
So, because I disagree, Im arrogant?
lol It seems like some people believe that Imam Malik (May Allah
be pleased with him), never made a mistake. Hmm, kind of like what the Shias believe.
Also, all I ask is bring forth atleast ONE SAHEEH evidence that shows/tells us that RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasalam prayed with his hands down. Please.
Quoting Imam Malik isnt evidence. If you want to quote him, show the evidence that he based his statements on.
OH NO! I must be a Salafi Wahabi Arrogant Nerd because I asked for evidence. How dare I do that?
April 4, 2006 @ 10:20 pm
GQ, I just quoted a hadeeth related by Imam Ahmad (r).
I like how you read with your pre-conceieved notions and not your eyes.
The inability to read that which is right in front of your face is an indication of arrogance.
April 4, 2006 @ 10:42 pm
AbdulHaqq, put aside your hatred aside (atleast for now).
Please post the Saheeh Hadeeth again (or atleast link me to it).
On a side note, its funny how you say you will gladly have an intellectual debate of brought on the table, yet here you are doing the complete opposite.
Nowhere did I attack you attack you in any way.
So put away your hatred and bring forth SAHEEH evidence, Insha’Allah
.
April 4, 2006 @ 11:10 pm
Oh and I could care less if I seem arrogant. I cant help what and how you think of me nor do I really care.
April 4, 2006 @ 11:11 pm
GQ,
I posted it right after you posted.
Also, see the article attached for the proofs.
April 4, 2006 @ 11:20 pm
“lol It seems like some people believe that Imam Malik (May Allah
be pleased with him), never made a mistake.”
If you want to follow the path of the salaf, then you have to attend the schools of the salaf, like the school of Imam Malik.
When you have completed the curriculum in Imam Malik’s school, then we will pay attention to your opinions.
April 5, 2006 @ 9:46 am
“So put away your hatred and bring forth SAHEEH evidence, Insha’Allah
.”
Do you not think that the ‘amal of the people of Madina during the first three generations of Islam is saheeh evidence?
April 5, 2006 @ 1:00 pm
Yup. There’s a whole question of ‘amal versus hadeeth, but thats a topic of ‘usool al fiqh
April 5, 2006 @ 9:51 pm
Umm, okay? Those Hadeeths which you have posted, are they Saheeh? It doesnt say anything about the authenticity of the posted Hadeeths.
April 6, 2006 @ 12:28 am
Omar6471, your point is flawed.
So just because I havent gone to school like Imam Malik, I cant question him? Instead, do I just blindly accept what he said?
April 6, 2006 @ 12:29 am
“Omar6471, your point is flawed.”
Mr. GQ, your understanding of my point is flawed. You clearly didn’t even read what I wrote at all carefully.
“So just because I havent gone to school like Imam Malik, I cant question him?”
First go to school and learn to read accurately. Until then, you can question him, but don’t expect anyone else to care. Just like nobody cares when a highschooler starts questioning Einstein.
“Instead, do I just blindly accept what he said?”
Better than blindly accepting your own uneducated opinions.
The blind should follow those with sight.
April 6, 2006 @ 6:49 pm
AbdulHaqq,
“Well, if you aren’t a scholar, you really can’t affirm or deny his proofs unless you engage in taqleed of other ‘Ulema?”
If he doesnt provide proofs, I will reject his statements.
If he does provide proofs, but arent Saheeh, I will reject it.
“How do you know a hadeeth is sahih in the first place? You do taqleed of Imam Bukhari or Albani or someone else.”
If Imam Malik provided Saheeh Hadeeth as evidence, I will accept it. If you want to go that route, I can ask you why do you follow the Quran? It wasnt revealed to you or in front of you. So please, leave that point out.
“You do taqleed in hadeeth and the explantaion of the Qur’an, and even in fiqh.”
I “blindly” follow?
“But you choose to do taqleed of certain ‘Ulema and not other ‘Ulema (who happen to be mujtahids)”
Wrong. Dont assume things.
“And also, see the actual article posted in the link. I don’t like copy-pasting texts into blog comments, especially when the entire article is attached.”
I did and that is why I asked you to point it out. I want to see the Hadeeth that states RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasalam used to pray with hands on his sides. Atleast give me the Book and volume number so I can look it up if you dont have it, Insha’Allah
.
Omar6741,
Unlike you, I will try to answer you without trying to get all personal with insults, Insha’Allah
.
“Until then, you can question him, but don’t expect anyone else to care. Just like nobody cares when a highschooler starts questioning Einstein.”
And thats why we are so screwed up today. We are looked down upon if we question someone. Did Omar (R) look down upon the womsn when the she began to question him?
We will be responsible for our actions at the Day of Judgement. We cant use “Imam Malik said this” as an excuse.
April 6, 2006 @ 7:52 pm
Mr GQ,
“We are looked down upon if we question someone.”
And rightly so, if you question someone without the proper knowledge or qualifications.
“Did Omar (R) look down upon the womsn when the she began to question him?”
Show me your evidence that this happened and show me that it is saheeh.
“We will be responsible for our actions at the Day of Judgement.”
We will be responsible for speaking about the deen without the proper knowledge and qualifications. A person who acts as a doctor without the proper knowledge and qualifications is considered a criminal. The same holds with the deen.
“We cant use “Imam Malik said this” as an excuse.”
Actually we can. Because Allah
doesn’t call anyone to account for that which is beyond their abilities. And if a scholar of the rank of Imam Malik couldn’t figure out how to hold his hands in prayer, we don’t have the ability to figure it out either.
Now please show me your proof that the incident with Omar(r) and the woman happened, and please show me why you think it is saheeh.
April 6, 2006 @ 9:14 pm
GQ,
I still doubt that you’ve read the article.
With regards to Sahih Hadith, the Maliki madhab isn’t restricted only to Sahih Hadith, but also Amal.
The article specifically states that the totality of evidences for other points indicates that the number of Sahabah (ra) who prayed with their arms folded did not constitute a mutawattir number of individuals.
Furthermore, the Maliki madhab does not deny the hadeeth, but indicates that the Prophet (saw) prayed with his arms folded during voluntary prayers, not obligatory prayers.
Thats why I kept asking if you had read the article because your questions don’t seem to indicate that you seriously understood the Maliki ‘usool and you were merely disagreeing because you wanted to blindly follow the ‘Ulema who say to pray with the arms folded.
Anyhow, I feel like we are least having a fruitful discussion as opposed.
masalama
April 6, 2006 @ 9:53 pm
448 Guiding Helper Line #564
(May Allah 
bless him and
bless him and give him peace), the second generation, and it is also the
(May Allah 
bless him and give him peace).” The other Companions replied, “[How can this
bless him and give him peace).” The other Companions replied, “[How can this be?] when you were
stood for prayer,
bless him and give him peace) shortly after his death was in fact to leave the hands dangling to the
bless him and give him peace) and were not aware of his later actions, (2) became confused with the
bless him and give him peace) still intact and functioning in Madinah where
bless him and give him peace) have more
Guiding Helper Excerpt:
Then, lower them slowly down to your sides with fear.
Proof(s) from Secondary Text(s):
The fifth mandub act of prayer is to lower the two hands with sobriety. It is mubah to fold them below one’s chest
in mandub prayers while it is disliked to fold them in wajib prayers.
[KF: volume 1: page 57: line(s) 8-9: {mandub acts of prayer; question 1}]
The Guiding Helper
268
Imam Malik said about placing the right hand over the left [in the standing postures of prayer], “I have no
knowledge of [the authenticity of] such an act in the wajib prayers483.” Ibn Qasim said, “Rather, Imam Malik used
to dislike [crossing the hands]; but, in the mandub prayers when the standing posture was long [due to the
recitation], [he considered] there to be no harm if it helped one [gain strength for the standing posture].
[MK: volume 1: page 76: line(s) 1-2: {formal prayer, leaning in prayer and placing one hand on the
other}]
Proof(s) from Primary Text(s):
Ibn Mas`ud said, “Shall I not demonstrate to you the prayer of the Messenger of Allah
give him peace)?” So, he prayed and did not raise his hands484 except at the first time [with the opening takbir]. …
This hadith is well-authenticated and many scholars have given legal positions according to it including some
Companions of the Prophet (May Allah
view of Sufyan al-Thawri and the people of Kufah485.
[{Tirmidhi, formal prayer, concerning the narrations that the Prophet did not raise his hands except at
the beginning of the prayer, hadith #238}]
Abu Qatadah ibn Rib`iyy said, ” I am the most knowledgeable of you concerning the formal prayer of the
Messenger of Allah
be?] when you were not present before us nor have you followed him more than us?” He insisted, “But, yes [I am
more knowledgeable.]486. They then replied, “O.k., tell us.” He then said, “When the Prophet stood for prayer he
stood straight and then brought his hands to his shoulders. Then, … he bowed with his back straight and he did not point his head down or up and he placed his palms on[/near] his knees. Then he said, “Sami`allahu li man
hamidah”. Then, he stood back up [after bowing] until every bone returned to its natural place487. Then, he fell
prostrate saying Allahu Akbar. During the prostration, he kept his forearms and stomach from his thighs and kept
his toes a little apart [propped up facing the qiblah]. Then, [he got up from prostration] and folded his left leg and
sat on it. He sat straight… Then he fell prostrate again saying Allahu Akbar… Then, he got up and did in the
second unit as he did in the first unit488. …
[{Ahmad, hadith #22493}]
Abu Humayd said, ” I am the most knowledgeable of you concerning the formal prayer of the Messenger of Allah
(May Allah
not present before us nor have you followed him more than us?” He insisted, “But, yes [I am more
knowledgeable.]. They then replied, “O.k., tell us.” He then said, “When the Messenger of Allah
he brought his hands to his shoulders. Then, he would utter the takbir until every bone returned to its natural
place489 while standing straight. Then, he recited Qur’an. Then, he bowed…
[{Ahmad, hadith #627}]
483 Now Imam Malik was narrating the knowledge of the people of Madinah as they preserved it from the end of the Prophet’s life until
his time (only about eighty to one hundred years). This statement of Imam Malik shows that the normal way of praying for those living
in the Prophet’s city (May Allah
sides as the Prophet had without a doubt himself taught them (This is because if this were an errant view, it could not have possibly
become the predominant way of praying with so many learned scholars of Islam in the city remaining quiescent about it). As for the
other later and more distant scholars that have given contradictory views, we would say that they either (1) preserved the earlier actions
of the Prophet (May Allah
statement of `A’ishah which states that she hated the way the people of Madinah prayed with their hands to the side as it resembled the
prayer of the Jews, or (3) made a wrong interpolation when they were deriving their schools of Jurisprudence from distant and isolated
reports of how the Prophet actually prayed.
[As a side note, the last point mentioned (#3 above) goes to further promote the Maliki school as the most accurate school of
Jurisprudence as Imam Malik had to make fewer interpolations in deriving legal rulings. This is because he could see with his own
eyes the complete system left by the Prophet (May Allah
he acquired sacred knowledge. Thus, the knowledge he narrated was not mostly deduced from isolated often contradictory verbal
statements. Whereas the other later and more distant scholars were faced with the hard task of trying to learn what the system left by
the Prophet was actually like by listening to isolated verbal utterances and then trying to join between these verbal utterances to come
up with a coherent system of Jurisprudence, which is more error-prone.]
484 As an extrapolation, this can be shown to prove that the better position for the hands is for them to dangle freely to the sides [in
wajib prayers]. As crossing them on one’s abdomen or chest is a higher position than leaving them dangling. Thus, folding them
across ones abdomen/chest (e.g., after getting up from the second prostration of the first unit) is an act of raising them which we are
told here is only done at the start of the prayer.
485 As for Imam Malik, there are two narration from him. The popular narration is what we have listed in the Guiding Helper texts that
the hands are not lifted except for the opening takbir.
486 Abu Qatadah was trying to remind them that the later actions of the Prophet (May Allah
authority than his earlier actions. Even though, he was not a long-standing Companion such as the others, he still observed the Prophet
very well during the end part of his life while perhaps they had not paid attention to slight differences that occurred.
487 Now here we see that the words every bone returned to its place signifies that the hands be left to dangle to the sides as this is the
(according to the view of the majority of the scholars) posture that the person who has gotten up from bowing and is about to prostrate
should take. In other words, we know that most scholars agree that the Prophet left his hands dangling to the sides after getting up
from bowing. Most Maliki scholars say this is the preferred position in all standing postures as it is the natural state
488 In this hadith and all of the other hadiths that describe the formal wajib prayers of the Prophet completely, no mention is made of
folding the hands. Rather, we are told that the limbs are in their natural state (which for the standing posture is to have one’s hands
dangling freely to the sides. Thus, the Maliki scholars say that the hadith which have been narrated about the Prophet folding his hands
all concern mandub prayers and not wajib prayers. This is why Imam Malik gave the view of leaving the hands hung in wajib prayers
while he himself was aware of isolated hadith which spoke about the Prophet folding his hands during prayer (which he probably
considered either to be a ruling for mandub prayers and/or a ruling exclusive to the prophets (as the hadith states, “From the speech of
prophet-hood is … placing the two hands one on the other in prayer….” [Muwatta’, calling to prayer, placing one hand on the other,
hadith #339]
489 Now here we see that the words every bone returned to its place is used for the standing posture of the formal prayer right after the
opening takbir and as mentioned before (refer to footnote 487) these words clearly signify that the hands should be left to dangle to
the sides.
From the Guiding Helper Notes of Sources. Mu’aff Kijiye for the length and disorganization of this.
April 6, 2006 @ 10:21 pm
jazakallah khairun Br. Luqman, would you mind posting this type of information in the Shield of Islam forum section on Maliki fiqh?
I’d prefer to just post links in the blog comments. :)
April 7, 2006 @ 1:34 am
“…the Prophet (saw) prayed with his arms folded during voluntary prayers, not obligatory prayers.”
Sorry, but you’re wrong.
April 7, 2006 @ 7:13 pm
Still, I didnt find any authentic evidence. Im still waiting for you to link me (if you dont want to paste it). I read the article as well.
April 7, 2006 @ 7:13 pm
mr GQ. these ppl are dishonest. i had posted two articles talking abt putting hands on chest during salat. jinzman removed them and didnt even say anything. amazing
April 7, 2006 @ 11:33 pm
Brokensword, thats why its pointless to debate. I agree with you.
I dont even care to refute them anymore. They arent interested.
May Allah
reward you. Ameen
guide us all. Ameen
May Allah
April 8, 2006 @ 1:16 am
Br. Jinnzaman: Sorry, bro, I’ll keep that in mind from now on.
Mr GG: Why do you think it is wrong?
.
This is the opinion of a large section of the Maliki scholars, who are surely much better aquainted with the matter than you. Your statement that it is wrong thus carries very little weight unless you can A.) provide us reason to value your opinion as that of one who has knowledge (although as a brother Muslim, we of course do consider your opinion to have some value) or B.) provide us evidence for your position based upon the opinions of those who we know to have knowledge. Merely quoting Hadis will not aid you unless you have the ‘ilm required to grade them, to interpret them and to integrate them into the general body of fiqh AND can demonstrate to us that you have this ‘ilm (else we have no reason believe that your opinion is correct, not being scholars ourselves). My point is that nothing is solved by tossing around Hadis and Ayats on the internet; the valuable opinion is that of one who knows, and the consensus opinion of those who know is that it is permissible to follow one of the four Mazhabs of Ahl-e-Sunnah and trust that one’s deen will be accepted, insha’Allah
April 8, 2006 @ 12:18 pm
brokensword,
I deleted them because they were entirely too long. I requested the same thing to Br. Luqman. I don’t like posting huge articles in the blog section. If you got them from a website, please just post the link.
April 8, 2006 @ 4:22 pm
“Still, I didnt find any authentic evidence.”
You didn’t give me any authentic evidence for your claim about the story involving Omar(r) and the old woman. Where is this story, and how do you know this is authentic?
April 8, 2006 @ 5:02 pm
Of course, my comment was deleted. Why? Because I exposed the truth.
Omar, I will be more than happy to give you daleel, Insha’Allah
.
April 9, 2006 @ 12:01 am